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From: Monika Balucinska-Church <mbc@star.sr.bham.ac.uk>
Subject: arf file for PN burst mode
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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:12:07 +0100 (BST)
From: Monika Balucinska-Church <mbc@star.sr.bham.ac.uk>
To: xmmhelp@sciops.esa.int
Subject: arf file for PN burst mode
Dear Helpdesk,

         can I ask you something about XMM analysis/simulations
for proposals please. We are going to submit a proposal for a bright
source for observation in burst mode, which we havent used before, and
want to simulate several EPIC PN spectra. To use 'fakeit' to make a fake 
spectrum you have to supply arf and rmf files as well as a spectral 
model. Arf files are no longer available on the web (as users can build 
their own), and to build an arf file with 'arfgen'  you have to supply 
the spectrum - so it's impossible to do ! 

         We have a burst mode rmf from the web: epn_bu23_sdY9_v6.9.rmf
and we have an old arf file we built when analysing real XMM data on a
faint source (XB 1323-619). 

         We dont know what information arfgen takes from the spectrum
it is built for, so can we ask the following please:

1. How do we get an arf file for simulating burst mode data ?

2. Does it make much difference which arf file we use - i.e. can
we use the existing arf for the faint source ?

3. What does arfgen take from the pha file ?

Apart from that we'd appreciate any other advice you can give on what
we want to do.  Thanks very much,

           Monika

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Monika Balucinska-Church 
   X-ray Binaries Group
   School of Physics & Astronomy    Phone:  +44 (0) 121 414 3724	      
   University of Birmingham         Fax:    +44 (0) 121 414 4561
   Edgbaston    	            E-mail: mbc@star.sr.bham.ac.uk  
   Birmingham B15 2TT, UK          
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reply 1

Resend
From: Maria Diaz Trigo <xmmhelp@sciops.esa.int>
To: mbc@star.sr.bham.ac.uk
Subject: Re: arf file for PN burst mode (PR#38354)
Date: Fri Sep 12 09:02:20 2008
Dear Monika,

the most accurate way of having the arf for your burst mode is actually
downloading an archived observation which is performed in burst mode and
generate both the 
spectrum and the corresponding arf. You can use then the arf to simulate the
spectrum of your source.

In principle, you can also use the arf that you have generated for XB 1323-619
(you must take into account the differences in effective time of the mode: 3% in
burst compared to 99.5% for timing). However, there is a 'little' difference
between both effective areas: for the burst mode, it is recommended to use only
RAWY < 160 (see http://www.aanda.org/index.php?option=article&access=standard&Itemid=129&url=/articles/aa/full/2006/25/aa4783-05/aa4783-05.fig.html).
Strictly speaking you should then consider the difference that is introduced in
the burst mode compared to the timing mode by considering only rows below RAWY
160. 

If you need further question regarding this issue, please do not hesitate in
contacting us. We can generate an arf for you if you consider it necessary.

All the best,

Maria

Maria Diaz Trigo
XMM-Newton SOC


> 
> Dear Helpdesk,
> 
>          can I ask you something about XMM analysis/simulations
> for proposals please. We are going to submit a proposal for a bright
> source for observation in burst mode, which we havent used before, and
> want to simulate several EPIC PN spectra. To use 'fakeit' to make a fake 
> spectrum you have to supply arf and rmf files as well as a spectral 
> model. Arf files are no longer available on the web (as users can build 
> their own), and to build an arf file with 'arfgen'  you have to supply 
> the spectrum - so it's impossible to do ! 
> 
>          We have a burst mode rmf from the web: epn_bu23_sdY9_v6.9.rmf
> and we have an old arf file we built when analysing real XMM data on a
> faint source (XB 1323-619). 
> 
>          We dont know what information arfgen takes from the spectrum
> it is built for, so can we ask the following please:
> 
> 1. How do we get an arf file for simulating burst mode data ?
> 
> 2. Does it make much difference which arf file we use - i.e. can
> we use the existing arf for the faint source ?
> 
> 3. What does arfgen take from the pha file ?
> 
> Apart from that we'd appreciate any other advice you can give on what
> we want to do.  Thanks very much,
> 
>            Monika
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Monika Balucinska-Church 
>    X-ray Binaries Group
>    School of Physics & Astronomy    Phone:  +44 (0) 121 414 3724	     

>    University of Birmingham         Fax:    +44 (0) 121 414 4561
>    Edgbaston    	            E-mail: mbc@star.sr.bham.ac.uk  
>    Birmingham B15 2TT, UK          
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 


Followup 1

Compose reply
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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:35:28 +0100 (BST)
From: Monika Balucinska-Church <mbc@star.sr.bham.ac.uk>
To: Maria Diaz Trigo <xmmhelp@sciops.esa.int>
Subject: Re: arf file for PN burst mode (PR#38354)
Dear Maria,

       thanks very much. We could download data from a bright source
and analyse it as farf as getting a spectrum and an arf, but this would
be substantial work for us,especially as we are away from the UK and would
have to use the software at Bham remotely.

    Regarding modifying the arf from a weak source - we do not know how
to take into account the differences in effective time, apart from the
RAWY problem.

     So if you can make an arf for us, we would appreciate it very much.

            Best Wishes,
                   Monika

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Monika Balucinska-Church 
   X-ray Binaries Group
   School of Physics & Astronomy    Phone:  +44 (0) 121 414 3724	      
   University of Birmingham         Fax:    +44 (0) 121 414 4561
   Edgbaston    	            E-mail: mbc@star.sr.bham.ac.uk  
   Birmingham B15 2TT, UK          
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008, Maria Diaz Trigo wrote:

> Dear Monika,
> 
> the most accurate way of having the arf for your burst mode is actually
> downloading an archived observation which is performed in burst mode and
> generate both the 
> spectrum and the corresponding arf. You can use then the arf to simulate
the
> spectrum of your source.
> 
> In principle, you can also use the arf that you have generated for XB
1323-619
> (you must take into account the differences in effective time of the mode:
3% in
> burst compared to 99.5% for timing). However, there is a 'little'
difference
> between both effective areas: for the burst mode, it is recommended to use
only
> RAWY < 160 (see
http://www.aanda.org/index.php?option=article&access=standard&Itemid=129&url=/articles/aa/full/2006/25/aa4783-05/aa4783-05.fig.html).
> Strictly speaking you should then consider the difference that is
introduced in
> the burst mode compared to the timing mode by considering only rows below
RAWY
> 160. 
> 
> If you need further question regarding this issue, please do not hesitate
in
> contacting us. We can generate an arf for you if you consider it necessary.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Maria
> 
> Maria Diaz Trigo
> XMM-Newton SOC
> 
> 
> > 
> > Dear Helpdesk,
> > 
> >          can I ask you something about XMM analysis/simulations
> > for proposals please. We are going to submit a proposal for a bright
> > source for observation in burst mode, which we havent used before, and
> > want to simulate several EPIC PN spectra. To use 'fakeit' to make a
fake 
> > spectrum you have to supply arf and rmf files as well as a spectral 
> > model. Arf files are no longer available on the web (as users can
build 
> > their own), and to build an arf file with 'arfgen'  you have to supply

> > the spectrum - so it's impossible to do ! 
> > 
> >          We have a burst mode rmf from the web: epn_bu23_sdY9_v6.9.rmf
> > and we have an old arf file we built when analysing real XMM data on a
> > faint source (XB 1323-619). 
> > 
> >          We dont know what information arfgen takes from the spectrum
> > it is built for, so can we ask the following please:
> > 
> > 1. How do we get an arf file for simulating burst mode data ?
> > 
> > 2. Does it make much difference which arf file we use - i.e. can
> > we use the existing arf for the faint source ?
> > 
> > 3. What does arfgen take from the pha file ?
> > 
> > Apart from that we'd appreciate any other advice you can give on what
> > we want to do.  Thanks very much,
> > 
> >            Monika
> > 
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >    Monika Balucinska-Church 
> >    X-ray Binaries Group
> >    School of Physics & Astronomy    Phone:  +44 (0) 121 414 3724	 
    
> >    University of Birmingham         Fax:    +44 (0) 121 414 4561
> >    Edgbaston    	            E-mail: mbc@star.sr.bham.ac.uk  
> >    Birmingham B15 2TT, UK          
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > 
> 
> ================================================================================================
> This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee
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> unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or
in part) of its content
> is prohibited. If you received this message in error, please delete it from
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Message of length 5039 truncated


Followup 2

Compose reply
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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:02:17 +0100 (BST)
From: Monika Balucinska-Church <mbc@star.sr.bham.ac.uk>
To: Maria Diaz Trigo <xmmhelp@sciops.esa.int>
Subject: Re: arf file for PN burst mode (PR#38354)
Dear Maria,

         can we ask another trivial question in addition please -
We have a burst-mode response epn_bu23_sdY9_v6.9.rmf and we will
have a burst-mode arf. The arf file will be different from a timing-mode
arf, but only by about 10%, so if we simulate data using 'fakeit' and
look at the count rate in Xspec, we think we will get the full count rate
of the source and the total number of counts in the time period used in
the simulation.

In a real observation in burst mode, we will get only 3% of the above
counts. Can you confirm that we understand correctly, please. This is
what we understood from your email.

       Thanks very much,
            Monika

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Monika Balucinska-Church 
   X-ray Binaries Group
   School of Physics & Astronomy    Phone:  +44 (0) 121 414 3724	      
   University of Birmingham         Fax:    +44 (0) 121 414 4561
   Edgbaston    	            E-mail: mbc@star.sr.bham.ac.uk  
   Birmingham B15 2TT, UK          
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




Reply 2

Resend
From: Maria Diaz Trigo <xmmhelp@sciops.esa.int>
To: mbc@star.sr.bham.ac.uk
Subject: Re: arf file for PN burst mode (PR#38354)
Date: Fri Sep 12 14:39:51 2008
Dear Monika,

I send you from my account the arf, since we cannot attach files in this system.
Please let me know if you don't receive it.

Regarding your question below, yes, you understand it correctly. In order to
have the spectrum that you will see with the burst mode, you must give an
exposure time in the simulation which is 3% of the total exposure time that you
are requesting to XMM.

With best wishes,

Maria

Maria Diaz Trigo
XMM-Newton SOC

> Dear Maria,
> 
>          can we ask another trivial question in addition please -
> We have a burst-mode response epn_bu23_sdY9_v6.9.rmf and we will
> have a burst-mode arf. The arf file will be different from a timing-mode
> arf, but only by about 10%, so if we simulate data using 'fakeit' and
> look at the count rate in Xspec, we think we will get the full count rate
> of the source and the total number of counts in the time period used in
> the simulation.
> 
> In a real observation in burst mode, we will get only 3% of the above
> counts. Can you confirm that we understand correctly, please. This is
> what we understood from your email.
> 
>        Thanks very much,
>             Monika
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Monika Balucinska-Church 
>    X-ray Binaries Group
>    School of Physics & Astronomy    Phone:  +44 (0) 121 414 3724	     

>    University of Birmingham         Fax:    +44 (0) 121 414 4561
>    Edgbaston    	            E-mail: mbc@star.sr.bham.ac.uk  
>    Birmingham B15 2TT, UK          
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 

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